Ducati Multistretta 1098S
- Thread starter millemille
- Start date
millemille
Well-known member
Wow, aren't you a little ray of sunshine....
What a bummer @millemille 
, you must be gutted , soo soon after all that work too. But, as you said, cloud, silver lining etc, keep up posted 
, you must be gutted , soo soon after all that work too. But, as you said, cloud, silver lining etc, keep up posted 
ok...just ignore it!
fact of the matter is when mains bearing go and to the point of rumbling, they tend to oval the crank case mounting and or crack it....this is particularly the case on the 1098 where the std crankcases manufacturing process was changed to save Money so the product is weak to start with....they changed it again with the 1198. The 1098R and the Rs crankcases are made in the older process and are stronger.......
Ducati also added to the problem with incorrect shimming of the cranks at manufacture.
I also wouldn't use Andrews for balancing unless the theme of fool and his money continues......I have used a place called Midland balancing near to junction 20 of the M1. JHP, Jeff Green( probably the best ducati engine builder in the uk till he emigrated) used these historically so he can't be that bad. If you use the search function you may even find a photo of a lightened 1098 crank he chopped for me and balanced. You may even find a picture of a cracked over main mounting too on the other side, That engine started and made some proper power, ran for ages and continues to this day in a different bike.
concentrating on screaming the motor and talk of raising the rev limiter to chase a fictitious number......dyno fever...
you say now, so did it start ok before it went to the dyno?
If it started before the dyno something was changed during the dyno time ....my money is on ign timing...too advanced, especially to chase those big numbers... I don't believe that changing stuff remotely will work you need a sniffer to see the impact on the AFR other wise its just a guess!
and there's the truth of what you wanted from the dyno tune.
I guess we can't say the impact on its demise, screaming an unknown bought second hand motor on the dyno may have, particularly at advanced ign timing numbers. you didn't know its history and thats a chance we all take. the history of that era 1098 motor is there to read in that even if it wasn't damaged internally from a previous drop, it may of been built destined to fail from the factory.
Still you now have a chance to rebuild it completely to the spec you want with all balancing matching parts and built by someone you trust.
millemille
Well-known member
Who said I was going to ignore it? It's not the message, it was how it was delivered.
The bearings aren't rumbling, I've not said that. That's your supposition.
@Nelly had already recommended Midland balancing.
millemille
Well-known member
"Screaming the motor" and "Dyno fever"? Odd, I was pretty sure it was only Chris and myself in the room at the time. Forgive me, if I'd have known you were there I'd have introduced myself. The vast majority of the dyno running time was spent getting 5%, 10%, 25% and 50% throttle right as well as transition from trailing and closed to open and the transition from stepper motor control to purely rider control.
You are absolutely right, there is always a risk with a 2nd hand motor. I had hoped the steps I had taken, having a reputable Ducati specialist service it and look it over and fit the performance parts, would have been enough to give a clue as to whether the engine was in generally good condition and didn't warrant any deeper attention. Lesson learned.
Do you understand how ECU's work, and particularly cold starting trim tables? The ignition advance and injector duration at engine running rpm, even idle, has no bearing on what happens when cranking with a stone cold engine. It started, with a struggle, from stone cold before it went on the dyno. A load of advance was taken out at cranking rpm to make it easier to start and it appeared to have made starting a whole lot better, but the reality is you can never truly check cold starting on the dyno unless you are prepared to wait several hours for the engine to get truly cold and the dyno room to cool down.
You don't need a dyno and lambda readings to sort out cold starting issues, you just need to try starting it with a stone cold engine having made changes in the cold start trim table or the main tables at cranking rpm.
Chris has already looked at the cold start fuelling currently in the ECU and the DP cold start and can see that there's a lot more fuel going in from the DP map. Once the bike's back together we'll try some different flashes where nothing other than the cold starting is changed.
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millemille
Well-known member
I can't see the word rumbling in there....
But that's down to my experience of the noise a large bearing that's dry makes when it's spun and yours.
So im not saying the crankcases are knackered as you point out I don't know. But I do know the std 1098 crankcases are rubbish and weak, history has shown that!! My own personal experience has shown that! I would want to be absolutely certain the shape and structure of my existing cases given your failure, are 100% ok.....im sure Nelly is more than up to that!
I’m sure they know their onions ... and their pricing...and their waiting list. I found them unobtainable and very expensive.. rather than their ability to do the job.
I was directed to Midland balancing and havnt looked back since. Nice guy knows his stuff takes time to explain ... takes cash
I was directed to Midland balancing and havnt looked back since. Nice guy knows his stuff takes time to explain ... takes cash
sev
Elite Member
ar getcha ..I’m sure they know their onions ... and their pricing...and their waiting list. I found them unobtainable and very expensive.. rather than their ability to do the job.
I was directed to Midland balancing and havnt looked back since. Nice guy knows his stuff takes time to explain ... takes cash
millemille
Well-known member
Engine fixed.
Nothing to with the mains, no end float or run out in the crank detectable with a DTI and smooth to turn over by hand and nothing nasty in the way of metal in the oil or on the sump plug. Not surprised as the sound wasn't, to my ear, the sound of a large, loaded, bearing in distress.
Everything to do with the bearing in the alternator cover being well and truly knackered. Bit of damage to the alternator, so replaced with a second hand one, and the engine got both side covers taken off and given a good flush through with solvent. There were some pieces of grey sealant on the oil screen, I'd be willing to bet some excess sealant made its way into the alternator cover bearing - as it's unshielded - and that's what did for it.
While the covers were off the clutch basket was replaced as it was a bit notchy and took the opportunity to machine the right hand side cover to let the clutch breathe.
All back together, couple of hundred miles on it and going well.
Unlike the pillion seat, which disappeared somewhere thanks to the shitty pillion seat lock spontaneously opening and the very nice, impossible to source now, Ducati Performance pillion seat being ejected.
Nothing to with the mains, no end float or run out in the crank detectable with a DTI and smooth to turn over by hand and nothing nasty in the way of metal in the oil or on the sump plug. Not surprised as the sound wasn't, to my ear, the sound of a large, loaded, bearing in distress.
Everything to do with the bearing in the alternator cover being well and truly knackered. Bit of damage to the alternator, so replaced with a second hand one, and the engine got both side covers taken off and given a good flush through with solvent. There were some pieces of grey sealant on the oil screen, I'd be willing to bet some excess sealant made its way into the alternator cover bearing - as it's unshielded - and that's what did for it.
While the covers were off the clutch basket was replaced as it was a bit notchy and took the opportunity to machine the right hand side cover to let the clutch breathe.
All back together, couple of hundred miles on it and going well.
Unlike the pillion seat, which disappeared somewhere thanks to the shitty pillion seat lock spontaneously opening and the very nice, impossible to source now, Ducati Performance pillion seat being ejected.
Glad to hear it's all sorted chap do you need a pillion seat?
do you need a pillion seat?
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millemille
Well-known member
Very much need a pillion seat, the bike gets used (or will do when life returns to some semblance of normality) for continental touring with hard luggage and SWMBO on the back...Glad to hear it's all sorted chap
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millemille
Well-known member
New Dunlop tyres fitted and what a difference! The old tyres were really fucking up the handling. All the dropping of the front and lifting the back was purely trying to overcome the old tyres extreme reluctance to turn.
Rode up through the High Peak to visit a mate up in the most amusingly named place in the UK, Penistone. Said mate happens to be a decent photographer and he took the opportunity to snap a few shots of the bike and some random fat bloke on it...
Rode up through the High Peak to visit a mate up in the most amusingly named place in the UK, Penistone. Said mate happens to be a decent photographer and he took the opportunity to snap a few shots of the bike and some random fat bloke on it...
millemille
Well-known member
Fat blokes bounce better and we're harder to kidnap...Cooldon't those Air Bag suits deflate after going off?
Ain't that the truth comrade! I'm a testament to the fact!
There’s some nice photos thereNew Dunlop tyres fitted and what a difference! The old tyres were really fucking up the handling. All the dropping of the front and lifting the back was purely trying to overcome the old tyres extreme reluctance to turn.
Rode up through the High Peak to visit a mate up in the most amusingly named place in the UK, Penistone. Said mate happens to be a decent photographer and he took the opportunity to snap a few shots of the bike and some random fat bloke on it...
. Don’t enter the bike of the month contest whatever you do